"Civilizatie"

[jet li]

Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men,
we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket,
he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being
was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians,
therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know
how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things
that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.

John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976

We do not want schools....
they will teach us to have churches.
We do not want churches....
they will teach us to quarrel about God.
We do not want to learn that.
We may quarrel with men sometimes
about things on this earth,
but we never quarrel about God.
We do not want to learn that.

Heinmot Tooyalaket ( Chief Joseph), Nez Perce Leader

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/quotes-nativeamerican.htm
Se poate vorbi o gramada doar pornind de la aceste doua citate despre "civilizatie". Le pun aici, cred ca unii se vor minuna si le vor uita apoi, iar altii mai putini le vor intelege si vor intelege mai bine lumea din jur

[Rush]

If the white man wants to live in peace with the Indian, he can live in peace...
Treat all men alike. Give them all the
same law. Give them all an even chance
to live and grow.All men were made by
the same Great Spirit Chief.
They are all brothers. The Earth is the mother of all people, and all people should have equal rights upon it....
Let me be a free man,free to travel,
free to stop,free to work,free to trade where I choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers,free to think and talk and act for myself, and I will obey every law, or submit to the penalty.

Really deep.

We need past back

When all the trees have been cut down,
when all the animals have been hunted,
when all the waters are polluted,
when all the air is unsafe to breathe,
only then will you discover you cannot eat money.

Cree Prophecy

amin

[jet li]

The Realm of Me and Mine

As that word mine indicates, ownership implies an attachment of things to self. The more we own, the more we are. The constellation of me and mine grows. But no matter how large the discrete and separate self grows, it is still far smaller than the self of the hunter-gatherer. The pre-separation mind is able to affirm, all at once and without contradiction, "I am this body," "I am this tribe," "I am the jungle," "I am the world." No matter how much of the jungle we control, we are smaller than the one who knows, "I am the jungle." No matter how dominant we are socially, we are far less than one who knows, "I am my tribe." And far less secure, too, because all of these appendages to our tiny separate selves may be easily sundered from us. We are therefore perpetually and irremediably insecure. We go to great lengths to protect all these accessories of identity, our possessions and money and reputations, and when our house is burglarized, our wallet stolen, or our reputation besmirched, we feel as if our very selves have been violated.

Not only does our acquisitiveness arise out of separation, it reinforces it as well. The notion that a forest, a gene, an idea, an image, a song is a separate thing that admits ownership is quite new. Who are we to own a piece of the world, to separate out a part of the sacred universe and make it mine? Such hubris, once unknown in the world, has had the unfortunate effect of separating out ourselves as well from the matrix of reality, cutting us off (in experience if not in fact) from each other, from nature, and from spirit. By objectifying the world and everything in it, by making an other of the world, we necessarily objectify ourselves as well in relation to that other. The self becomes a lonely and isolated ego, connected to the world pragmatically but not in essence, afraid of death and thus closed to life. Such a self, cut off from its true nature and separated from the factitious environment created by its own self-definition, will always be insecure and will always try to exert more and more control over this environment.

[Adi[CG]]

Padurile amazoniene vă așteaptă cu crăcile deschise pentru cel puțin câțiva zeci de ani de liniște departe de oripilanta civilizație.

La revedere, dragii mei. V-aș ura să ne scrieți, dar îmi dau seama că nu veți avea cum.







Aberăm pe forum și asta ne ocupă tot timpul ...

[valh]

Imi amintesti de un banc:
Cica,stiti de ce a cazut partidul comunist din Somalia?
S-a rupt creanga cu ei!


Coltul vesel al activistilor!

[jet li]

Adi[CG] pentru ca eu sa aberez trebuie sa o fac in functie de ceva. Descrie-mi te rog "sistemul" fata de care eu "deviez" daca poti. Si pentru ce ar merita sa fie "respectat".

Nu ai sa poti sa il descrii pentru ca nu exista.

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/chapter4-2.php

Play is the production of fun; entertainment is the consumption of fun. When the neighbors watch the Superbowl together they are consumers; when they organize a game of touch football (alas, the parks are empty these days) they are producers. When they watch music videos together they consume; when they play in a band they produce. Only through the latter activity is there the possibility of getting to know each other's strengths and limitations, character and inner resources. In contrast, the typical cocktail party, dinner party, or Superbowl party affords little opportunity to share much of oneself, because there is nothing to do. (And have you noticed how any attempt to share oneself in such settings seems contrived, uncomfortable, awkward, inappropriate, or embarrassing?) Besides, real intimacy comes not from telling about yourself—your childhood, your relationships, your health problems, etc.—but from joint creativity, which brings out your true qualities, invites you to show that aspect of yourself needed for the task at hand. Later, when intimacy has developed, telling about oneself may come naturally—or it may not even be necessary.

Have you ever wondered why your childhood friendships were closer, more intimate, more bonded than those of adulthood? At least that's how I remember mine. It wasn't because we had heart-to-heart conversations about our feelings. With our childhood friends we felt a closeness that probably wasn't communicated in words. We did things together and created things together. From an adult's perspective our creativity was nothing but games: our play forts and cardboard box houses and pretend tea parties and imaginary sports teams and teddy bear families were not real. As children, though, these activities were very real to us indeed; we were absolutely in earnest and invested no less a degree of emotion in our make-believe than adults do in theirs.

Yes, the adult world is make-believe too. Roles and costumes, games and pretenses contribute to a vast story. When we become aware of it, we sense the artificiality of it all and feel, perhaps, like a child playing grown-up. The entire edifice of culture and technology is built on stories, composed of symbols, about how the world is. Usually we don't notice; we think it is all "for real". Our stories are mostly unconscious. But the new edifice that will rise from the ruins of the old will be built on very different stories of self and world, and these stories will be consciously told. We will go back to play.

As children the things we did together mattered to us. To us they were real; we cared about them intensely and they evoked our full being. In contrast, most of the things we do together as adults for the sake of fun and friendship do not matter. We recognize them as frivolous, unnecessary, and relegate them to our "spare time". A child does not relegate play to spare time, unless forced to.

I remember the long afternoons of childhood when my friends and I would get totally involved in some project or other, which became for that time the most important thing in the universe. We were completely immersed, in our project and in our group. Our union was greater than our mere sum as individuals; the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. The friendships that satisfy our need for connection are those that make each person more than themselves. That extra dimension belongs to both partners and to neither, akin to the "fifth voice" that emerges in a barbershop quartet out of the harmonics of the four. In many of my adult relationships I feel diminished, not enlarged. I don't feel like I've let go of boundaries to become part of something greater than my self; instead I find myself tightly guarding my boundaries and doling out only that little bit of myself that is safe or likeable or proper. Others do the same. We are reserved. We are restrained.

Our reservedness should not be too surprising, because there is little in our adult friendships that compels us to be together. We can get together and talk, we can get together and eat and talk, we can get together and drink and talk. We can watch a movie or a concert together and be entertained. There are many opportunities for joint consumption but few for joint creativity, or for doing things together about which we care intensely. At most we might go sailing or play sports with friends, and at least we are working together toward a common purpose, but even so we recognize it as a game, a pastime. The reason adult friendships seem so superficial is that they are superficial. The reason we can find little to do besides getting together and talking, or getting together to be entertained, is that our society's specialization has left us with little else to do. Thus the teenager's constant refrain: "There's nothing to do." He is right. As we move into adulthood, in place of play we are offered consumption, in place of joint creativity, competition, and in place of playmates, the professional colleague.i

Because the economy depends on our roles, but does not care which individuals fill these roles, we suffer an omnipresent anxiety and insecurity borne of the fact that the world can get along just fine without us. We are easily replaced. Of course, for our friends and loved ones—people who know us personally—we are irreplaceable. But with the increasingly fine division of labor and mass scale of modern society, these are fewer and fewer, as more and more social functions enter the monetized realm. Thus we live in fear, anxiety, and insecurity, and justifiably so, because we are easily replaceable in the roles we perform to earn money.

We can get along fine without you. We'll just pay someone else to do it.

[Adi[CG]]

Jet Li: mi se pare ridicol sa deplangi dezastrul civilizatiei moderne ... unde ? Pe un forum, din caldura locuintei tale facilitata de civilizatia moderna. Folosind ce ? Un laptop sau desktop care este un soi de culme a consumerismului modern si se upgradeaza la presiunea absolut artificiala a software-ului. De ce nu folosesti un 286 si un browser in mod text ?

Nu stiu daca-ti dai seama de ipocrizia absoluta sau naivitatea incredibila - nu stiu, alege - a afirmatiilor tale.

Esti liber sa-ti traiesti restul vietii liber in natura, hranindu-te cu produsele fundamentale ale naturii. Cam asta e mesajul meu.

[jet li]

Unde in tot ce am scris aici spun eu sa uitam cea ce nu putem uita si sa "traim in natura" ?

[Rush]

pentru Adi[CG] si Valh

YouTube - zdob si zdub - doina haiducului

YouTube - zdob si zdub - doina haiducului

Sa nu uitati fratilor de cei care cu tarana s-au luptat sa ne aduca pe noi in stadiul asta de boieri ai tehnologiei moderne.Si totusi de natura ati auzit?

ce e mai frumos de-atat ?

[valh]

Nu uit Rush,nu uit! Oricum,cand va citesc posturile fabula ,parca va vad:

YouTube - Aldo Giovanni e Giacomo: preistoria

YouTube - Aldo Giovanni e Giacomo: preistoria

[Extra3OO]

nu stiu unde vezi tu codru, in pozele astea..

[Rush]

Originally Posted by valh

Nu uit Rush,nu uit! Oricum,cand va citesc posturile fabula ,parca va vad:

YouTube - Aldo Giovanni e Giacomo: preistoria

fabula zici,viteazule? curtea-i apus si rasarit ca dupa gard n-am mai zarit.

Extra3OO,ai dreptate mane ! negarea comuniunii omului cu natura se face prin petrol si valhisti d-astia patrioti.

[valh]

Originally Posted by Rush

fabula zici,viteazule? curtea-i apus si rasarit ca dupa gard n-am mai zarit.

Extra3OO,ai dreptate mane ! negarea comuniunii omului cu natura se face prin petrol si valhisti d-astia patrioti.

Iar incepi cu flame?


Pe scurt, un troll (germană: Troll sau Kobold = spiriduş) este un provocator fără cauză, cineva care lansează o discuţie cu scopul de a recrea un conflict de idei. Uneori, conflictul devine amuzant pentru troll, dar aproape niciodată pentru participanţii inocenţi.

Troll-ul se foloseşte de subiecte clasice, cunoscute pentru pasiunea care o pot generea şi pentru imposibilitatea de a le argumenta definitiv. Adesea, troll-ul se foloseşte de subiecte specifice comunităţii în care doreşte să stârnească zâzania, cum ar fi regulile sau eticheta.

Denumirea de troll se poate aplica şi mesajului menit să agite spiritele.

În limba engleză, troll reprezintă o creatură imaginară din mitologia scandinavă. Are înfăţişarea unei persoane foarte urâte trăind în grote sau prin munţi. Trolii îşi fac apariţia la sfârşitul zilei(N.R.=ora 0.56). (traducere din dicţionarul limbii engleze collins colbuild)

[Rush]

Originally Posted by valh

Iar incepi cu flame?

Am generalizat,oricum probabil e vorba de gust in discutia asta.

Originally Posted by valh

Pe scurt, un troll (germană: Troll sau Kobold = spiriduş) este un provocator fără cauză, cineva care lansează o discuţie cu scopul de a recrea un conflict de idei. Uneori, conflictul devine amuzant pentru troll, dar aproape niciodată pentru participanţii inocenţi.

Dude chill up with that LOTR stuff,deja esti cald.

YouTube - Zdob şi Zdub - Ciobănaş

YouTube - Zdob şi Zdub - Ciobănaş

[Adi[CG]]

Am vazut de toate pe topicul asta. Amerindieni, consumerismul care distruge, haiduci, folclor, ecologie, alienare in societatea moderna.

Va propun sa mai bagati si ceva despre rezistenta bacteriilor la antibiotice, E-uri in alimente, limbaje disparute, metode de constructie neconventionale.

Sa fie un fel de enciclopedie, de citit seara.

[stiller]

Originally Posted by Adi[CG]

limbaje disparute

As in, "Cobol is obsolete"?

[Adi[CG]]

Cobol, Fortran, Algol ...

[oldshooterman]

Sa va mai descretiti fruntile: "Close to half of women surveyed said that they would choose to abandon sex for two weeks rather than give up their Internet access."
DailyTech - Nearly Half of Women Surveyed Choose Internet Over Sex

Printre comentarii:
"Of course these women are choosing the internet over sex...they have never been with me."

[Adi[CG]]

Cred ca se profileaza un topic de larga respiratie si mare succes.

[Ivan]

Adevarul e ca incepuse prost dar pare sa se dezmorteasca.