China - o noua putere mondiala - Page 103

skyblue · 11-06-2009, 17:10

Foarte tari Bentley-ul si Rolls Royce-ul fabricate de Gelly ( cam la 3:40) cat si Buggaty-ul Gelly la 3:28.

Roverul 750 fabricat de ROEWE (1:43) sau Caddilacul Relly ( 4:15). Ce sa mai zic de Hammerul Longbo (4:24) si Smartul Longbo (4:41)

Felicitari si Byd Auto pt Passatul fabricat de ei. (2:18)

Misto film. Ironia fiind ca pana la urma multi dintre copiati s-ar putea trezi cumparati de copiatori.

ablium · 12-06-2009, 11:47

Here is the confirmation of what I said about Renault's performance in USA
WikiAnswers - Why is Renault not sold in the USA

This shows models of Renault cars sold in USA

YouTube - Renault & AMC commercial 1985

Romania is a big market for Renault cars. That is probably why Romanians are upset when they have heard several models of Renault cars are banned by China. Here is the only youtube report about the event, which is in Romanian language.

YouTube - embargo renault china

Arrogant French keep messing with China, from Olympic to Tibet issues. I think that France better spend their energy in solving their domestic problems, such as building a better airport. A friend of mine who works for Intel recently took a business trip to France. He told me a few days ago that the Charles De Gaulle Airport in Paris looks like a bus station. I thought he was exaggerating. But I am convinced now after I read this website.
Worst Airports in the World | sleepinginairports.net

Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport CDG | Information and Reviews (CDG)

SteakHunter · 12-06-2009, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

China will be the world largest auto market this year, 10 years ahead of expectation. This certainly gives Chinese automakers enough space to maneuver. China has launched many new car models in 2009 as shown in Shanghai Auto Show.
YouTube - Auto Shanghai Motor Show Messe 2009: Made in China - english

This will be the end of our planet as we know it. I ask you to forgive my nervous breakdown, but 2 BILLION people breeding at an alarming rate and producing BILLIONS of cars for them and their offspring is something unmatched by all the "decadent" western societies put toghether. This will be the end of our iron resources, of our oil reserves, of humanity as we know it. I suggest that the Chinese people and Indian people form a single country, so they can multiply faster.

Quote:

Arrogant French keep messing with China, from Olympic to Tibet issues. I think that France better spend their energy in solving their domestic problems

"arrogant French" aren't 2 billion and rising, so I'd say they're the ones solving their domestic problems and about the only serious damage they do to the enviroment is producing nuclear waste, which they deposit in Germany anyway

ablium · 12-06-2009, 12:46

^
^
I don't know what you are talking about. China's population growth rate is a half of the world average.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ionCode=eas#CH

I told you before that China's high population were because of historical reason. If Europeans had not massively immigrated to new continents during colonial era, over-population problem in Europe would have been more serious than in China. Currently, the population density (people per square km) of China is only 1.2 times of EU, except that most of European lands are useful and nearly a half of China's lands are useless.

Zarzavat · 12-06-2009, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblue

Foarte tari Bentley-ul si Rolls Royce-ul fabricate de Gelly ( cam la 3:40) cat si Buggaty-ul Gelly la 3:28.

Roverul 750 fabricat de ROEWE (1:43) sau Caddilacul Relly ( 4:15). Ce sa mai zic de Hammerul Longbo (4:24) si Smartul Longbo (4:41)

Felicitari si Byd Auto pt Passatul fabricat de ei. (2:18)

Misto film. Ironia fiind ca pana la urma multi dintre copiati s-ar putea trezi cumparati de copiatori.

da serifule. dar oricum ai formula si ai prezenta problema, realitatea este ca:
- firmele chinezesti COPIAZA (FURA) munca ALTORA
- calitatea chinezariilor este binecunoscuta
- pretul scazut al chinezariilor depinde in mare masura de EXPLOATAREA sarmanilor bastinasi, care muncesc 16 pe zi pe 150 E/luna+bonus 3 castroane de orez/zi
asa ca avantul asta chinezesc are si niste costuri ascunse. eu unu' nu m-as lauda cu astfel de "realizari". din contra.

daca china ar fi asa mare si tare, ar creste nivelul de trai intern si si-ar plati mai bine oamenii. asa se dezvolta, exporta, si in tara oamenii se zbat in lipsuri. sau daca salta salariile isi pierd COMPETITIVITATEA pe piata? => competitivitatea lor rezida din pret = costuri mici = salarii mici. se sacrifica de bunavoie oamenii aia, nu? din motive altruiste. ei n-au nevoie de orez sa le umple burtile. le e deajuns satisfactia data de reportajele la TV care arata china pe culmile economice

SteakHunter · 12-06-2009, 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

^
^
I don't know what you are talking about. China's population growth rate is a half of the world average.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...ionCode=eas#CH

I told you before that China's high population were because of historical reason. If Europeans had not massively immigrated to new continents during colonial era, over-population problem in Europe would have been more serious than in China. Currently, the population density (people per square km) of China is only 1.2 times of EU, except that most of European lands are useful and nearly a half of China's lands are useless.

Yes, we can see that, lots of europid people, those pesky rabbit like critters and their evil colonies

. Can't you see how ridiculous your arguments are? Western Europe has a NEGATIVE growth rate even as we speak, with no remaining colonies, by what wonder did you come to the conclusion that it was ever in any danger of overpopulation?

800 million or so if you count South America, and decreasing

.

Let's not hide behind the thumb, an 0.66% rate of increase on a 1.5 billion population (more like 2) is alarming, use condoms. Better late than never. Of course, India didn't get that memo either.

I'm sorry I'm an European, we breeders are guilty of overpopulating the earth

Zarzavat · 12-06-2009, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

...and nearly a half of China's lands are useless.

asta nu v-a oprit sa macelariti populatia tibetana ca sa puneti gheara pe o parte din teritoriile alea nefolositoare!!!

Lord Raptor · 12-06-2009, 14:36

Quote:

asta nu v-a oprit sa macelariti populatia tibetana

Se numeste "armonizare", Zarzavat!
Ablium ar trebui sa cunoasca foarte bine termenul asta.

ablium · 12-06-2009, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

Yes, we can see that, lots of europid people, those pesky rabbit like critters and their evil colonies

. Can't you see how ridiculous your arguments are? Western Europe has a NEGATIVE growth rate even as we speak, with no remaining colonies, by what wonder did you come to the conclusion that it was ever in any danger of overpopulation?

800 million or so if you count South America, and decreasing

.

Let's not hide behind the thumb, an 0.66% rate of increase on a 1.5 billion population (more like 2) is alarming, use condoms. Better late than never. Of course, India didn't get that memo either.

I'm sorry I'm an European, we breeders are guilty of overpopulating the earth

Human population growth follows a path of two possible directions regardless of what race or ethnic. One direction is becoming rich and population growth rate dropping. The other direction is remaining poor and high population growth rate. In the second direction, the overpopulation is naturally solved by diseases and wars. The medieval plagues often killed 1/3 to 1/2 of European populations. The fundamental reason behind frequent wars between European nations in the history may be traced to over-population problem. We should remember that one of main motivations for Nazi Germany to launch World War II was “Lebensraum” (German word for living space). In the second half of 20th century, Europe entered a benign cycle – becomes rich and population stabilizes (or slightly decreases). Similar cases were seen in Japan and Korea. China moved to industrialization stage too late and remained in the malignant cycle for several decades longer than Europe or Japan. In the late 1970s, Chinese government realized that it must use a forceful method to break this malignant cycle and introduced harshest population control policy ever in human history – only one child allowed per family.

By the way, condoms and contraception pills have been freely distributed in China for three decades.

neophitus · 12-06-2009, 16:49

Am avut enorm de multa vreme o parere deosebita despre miracolul chinez si despre Ablium. In ultima vreme insa am studiat mai mult problema si mi-am cam schimbat parerea. Ablium nu incearca decat sa manipuleze si sa ridice in slavi un pericol real, punand majoritatea problemelor in spate. Pur si simplu nu raspunde la ele sau face filosofie. In societatea occidentala oamenii care muncesc mult, de obicei au mult. In China enorm de multi muncesc mult, dar doar pentru supravietuire. Tot respectul pentru studiile tale occidentale, pentru ce ai reusit in viata, insa ori esti extrem de patriot, lucru foarte frumos, ori esti indoctrinat si direct interesant si implicat in structurile comuniste.
Iar Zarzavat a punctat excelent. Implementarea este probabil cel mai ieftin lucru din ciclul productiei in ziua de azi, pur si simplu China fura. Iar fimele pe care le-am vazut de pe la saloane auto si altele asta arata.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzavat

da serifule. dar oricum ai formula si ai prezenta problema, realitatea este ca:
- firmele chinezesti COPIAZA (FURA) munca ALTORA
- calitatea chinezariilor este binecunoscuta
- pretul scazut al chinezariilor depinde in mare masura de EXPLOATAREA sarmanilor bastinasi, care muncesc 16 pe zi pe 150 E/luna+bonus 3 castroane de orez/zi
asa ca avantul asta chinezesc are si niste costuri ascunse. eu unu' nu m-as lauda cu astfel de "realizari". din contra.

Atat timp cat majoritatea este varza, normalitatea sau extraordinarul nu inseamna nimic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzavat

asta nu v-a oprit sa macelariti populatia tibetana ca sa puneti gheara pe o parte din teritoriile alea nefolositoare!!!

Intr-o tara unde oamenii nu au drepturi e foarte usor sa se realizeze ce China a realizat. O clasa conducatoare extrem de bogata si cu drepturi infinite si o ENORMA masa de oameni saraca si fara drepturi. In China o viata de om nu inseamna nimic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

Can't you see how ridiculous your arguments are? Western Europe has a NEGATIVE growth rate even as we speak, with no remaining colonies, by what wonder did you come to the conclusion that it was ever in any danger of overpopulation?
Let's not hide behind the thumb, an 0.66% rate of increase on a 1.5 billion population (more like 2) is alarming

Ablium, din nou, nu vezi cat de ridicola e comparatia? Tu compari o rata de crestere pozitiva cu una negativa?
Este o necesitate ca cresterea sa fie negativa, daca nu vrem sa terminam absolut toate resursele planetei. China incearca de 40 de ani sa faca ceva si tot pe plus este. Deci modelul NU este bun.

PS: In ultimul timp am renuntat sa mai cumpar produse chinezesti. Cumpar doar produse cipriote, germane, japoneze, sud-coreene, romanesti si vest europene. De nevoie mai ajung sa mai prind cate o componenta de calculator made in China, dar majoritatea altele sunt facute in Taiwan, Malaezia, Mexic asa ca nu se pune. Macar in tarile alea oamenii sunt liberi.

LE: Oricum modelul economic al viitorului va fi unul chinez, insa sper ca nu in stadiul actual, ci mult diferit. A inceput bine dar mai are mult de tras pana sa ajunga sa imi scot palaria in fata lui. Pana atunci ma multumesc cu cel occidental si il admir pe cel japonez.

ablium · 12-06-2009, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by neophitus

In societatea occidentala oamenii care muncesc mult, de obicei au mult. In China enorm de multi muncesc mult, dar doar pentru supravietuire.

You are a little bit naive. That is not the case in the West society, in fact not in any society. Some Americans work two shifts (16 hours), but remain poor. Some people do not work but live in luxury. Top 1% Americans control 42% financial wealth.
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesam...er/wealth.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by neophitus

PS: In ultimul timp am renuntat sa mai cumpar produse chinezesti. Cumpar doar produse cipriote, germane, japoneze, sud-coreene, romanesti si vest europene. De nevoie mai ajung sa mai prind cate o componenta de calculator made in China, dar majoritatea altele sunt facute in Taiwan, Malaezia, Mexic asa ca nu se pune. Macar in tarile alea oamenii sunt liberi.

One thing that most Europeans do not know is that South Korea was under military rule and Taiwan was under martial law until late 1980s. They were democratized only after they became rich.

SteakHunter · 12-06-2009, 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

Human population growth follows a path of two possible directions regardless of what race or ethnic. One direction is becoming rich and population growth rate dropping. The other direction is remaining poor and high population growth rate.
In the second direction, the overpopulation is naturally solved by diseases and wars.

China is becoming rich, but still the growth rate remains positive. Maybe a war is in order?

. No, no, not the tibetans

Quote:

The medieval plagues often killed 1/3 to 1/2 of European populations. The fundamental reason behind frequent wars between European nations in the history may be traced to over-population problem. We should remember that one of main motivations for Nazi Germany to launch World War II was “Lebensraum” (German word for living space).

Skewing the meaning of words and situations won't do much to support your ideas

. The translation is a lot closer to "vital space", and the term, in that context, refers, for the most part, to natural resources

. I'm curious, do they teach the idea that actual living space was the problem in China's schools? If so, that's extremely funny

We ARE taller and wider on average, but where one million Chinese fits, I'm sure a million Germans will, although it's gonna be cramped

ablium · 12-06-2009, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

Skewing the meaning of words and situations won't do much to support your ideas

. The translation is a lot closer to "vital space", and the term, in that context, refers, for the most part, to natural resources

.

Doesn't over-population mean insufficient natural resource for a population?

By the way, here is the wiki translation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

China is becoming rich, but still the growth rate remains positive.

China still has long way to go before it can be called developed nation. No other developing nation has done better job than China in population control. China not only has one-child policy, but also has unwritten rule requiring married couple to have the sum of their ages more than 50 years for bearing child. Now what else do you want China to do? Do you want them to kill each other in order to solve the population problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

I'm curious, do they teach the idea that actual living space was the problem in China's schools? If so, that's extremely funny

If China had taught this kind of stuff in school, you would have heard many times in the western media. I know this because I have great interest in learning history.

SteakHunter · 12-06-2009, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

Doesn't over-population mean insufficient natural resource for a population?

By the way, here is the wiki translation
Lebensraum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

China still has long way to go before it can be called developed nation. No other developing nation has done better job than China in population control. China not only has one-child policy, but also has unwritten rule requiring married couple to have sum of ages more than 50 years for bearing child. Now what else do you want China to do? Do you want them to kill each other in order to solve the population problem?

If China had taught this kind of staff in school, you would have heard many times in the western media. I know this because I have great interest in learning history.

Don't take wikipedia ad-literam, it's not a dependable source of info, most of the time

. Besides, read the first paragraph, it says something about agriculture

I prefer to think of overpopulation as just "too damn many people", and you must admit the Chinese are.This is not a problem now, but it's damn close to it and it's a time bomb.

Geometric progressions are a bitch, even at 0.6% per year, we don't need to wait and see if it turns bad, we just know it will. Unless you can promise everybody that a decade, at most, is enough to turn this tendency around. This is not a 50 million people base for the progression we're talking about, which would leave a wide margin for maneuvering, but 2 billions, it's on the brink of becoming a disaster.

You don't need to have people competing for food before you can safely say you have overpopulation on your hands, in case I didn't make my point clearly enough.

Even more, nobody put pen to paper to see if this planet can sustain China until it reaches the level of development required to turn the growth rate around. Can we afford to let China develop? Of course, this is not for me to decide, but I have a distinct feeling that people at the top are peeing in their pants at the thought of that.

I, for one, think we can't afford a developed China, because of the huge resource drain that would imply, but we can't afford an underdeveloped China, because that would stimulate the natural growth that would take us to the same huge resource drain.

I must be cynical and say that a war, however terrible it may be (and not necessarily a weapon-based one), is inevitable. This time, not Germany vs Europe, but the world versus China, if we are to have stuff to eat, to drive and to live in in our lifetimes.

No, I'm not a doomsayer. I'm just very worried about phospate mines running just about dry 2 years ago and having to feed meat and other expensive food to 1.5 billion people (because they've "developed").

P.S. "staff" = stuff
P.P.S.: Even if on a grand scale the theory of growth rate becoming negative with development is sound, my great-grandparents lived in a clay cottage BUT only had two children. It's as simple as thinking before fscking, in my opinion.

ablium · 12-06-2009, 23:47

^
^
This is typical paradoxical behavior that I see in the West. While accusing human right violation in China’s strict population control policy, they deeply worry about the huge population size of China. Current age structure and fertility rate of China's population tells that it will be stabilized soon.
http://www.chinaeconomicreview.com/d...stabilize.html

Actually, you should worry more about India. From the internet, I often see that many Indians still hold the view of "more people more power" and surpassing China's population is their national goal.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news...-study/127769/

China's population relative to the world population has been decreasing for many decades. In year 1900, China's population was 1/4 of the world population and now it is about 1/5. In a few decades, it is expected to become 1/6.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

No, I'm not a doomsayer. I'm just very worried about phospate mines running just about dry 2 years ago and having to feed meat and other expensive food to 1.5 billion people (because they've "developed").

You are a little bit over-worried. China is the world largest phosphate producer and China also exports phosphate fertilizer and other phosphate based industrial chemicals.

SteakHunter · 13-06-2009, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

^
^
This is typical paradoxical behavior that I see in the West. While accusing human right violation in China’s strict population control policy, they deeply worry about the huge population size of China.

I did NOT say that. From my point of view, the strict population control policy is very smart. Less fscking(and by that I mean more contraception), more thinking sounds like a good idea

Quote:

Actually, you should worry more about India. From the internet, I often see that many Indians still hold the view of "more people more power" and surpassing China's population is their national goal.

India to overtake China

Well, maybe China and India should go play. They're both grown up nuclear powers, right?

Quote:

You are a little bit over-worried. China is the world largest phosphate producer and China also exports phosphate fertilizer and other phosphate based industrial chemicals.

Check out the prices on phosphate fertilizers cca 2006 and cca 2009. You'll have a huge shock. Since indians are still mainly eating eating tree bark, I think we know who to thank, now, don't we?

The bottom line is: we have less than 2 billion people (and decreasing) in countries at Romania's level of development or better (rough approximation). We have about 2 billion Chinese, more than 1 billion Indians

Can this planet afford to have 5.5 billion of people (that's not counting the probable 2 billion increase until the growth reaches a standstill) at a decent stage of development, so that the population can start shrinking in India and China? I think not. I don't think we can even afford to have the Chinese buy cars, looking at the iron ore mining statistics. Even if they made them out of plastic, we don't have enough oil to make that much plastic.

"Avem o planeta. Cum procedam?"

oldshooterman · 13-06-2009, 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ablium

...Actually, you should worry more about India. From the internet, I often see that many Indians still hold the view of "more people more power" and surpassing China's population is their national goal...

India, Pakistanul si alte tari din regiune sint adevaratul pericol, inimaginabil mai mare. Un prieten care a fost in India ne-a facut o proiectie video la club si am retinut urmatoarea remarca plus imaginile aferente: "va plac tiganii? vreti sa vedeti "sate" cu 500,000 sau 1.000.000 de "tigani"?...E de neimaginat cum arata si cum e sa traiesti in asa ceva!"...

ablium · 13-06-2009, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteakHunter

Check out the prices on phosphate fertilizers cca 2006 and cca 2009. You'll have a huge shock. Since indians are still mainly eating eating tree bark, I think we know who to thank, now, don't we?

Don't blame China for the phosphate fertilizer price hike. As the matter of fact, China was the world second largest exporter of phosphate in 2007 (accounting for about 18% of global phosphate traded), with US being the world largest. China's phosphate supply is self-sufficient. EU and India almost completely depend on import.

China was also the world largest urea (nitrogen fertilizer) exporter, accounting 17% of global trade.

See page 12
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/AR33/AR33.pdf

ixtl · 13-06-2009, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldshooterman

India, Pakistanul si alte tari din regiune sint adevaratul pericol, inimaginabil mai mare. Un prieten care a fost in India ne-a facut o proiectie video la club si am retinut urmatoarea remarca plus imaginile aferente: "va plac tiganii? vreti sa vedeti "sate" cu 500,000 sau 1.000.000 de "tigani"?...E de neimaginat cum arata si cum e sa traiesti in asa ceva!"...

Si totusi tiganii aia pun sateliti pe orbita si sunt capabili sa trimita o sonda catre Luna.
Si sunt o putere nucleara.
Sigur ca o minorissima parte din populatia de aproape 1 miliard e implicata in programele astea. Dar exista.

ablium · 14-06-2009, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyblue

Foarte tari Bentley-ul si Rolls Royce-ul fabricate de Gelly ( cam la 3:40) cat si Buggaty-ul Gelly la 3:28.

Roverul 750 fabricat de ROEWE (1:43) sau Caddilacul Relly ( 4:15). Ce sa mai zic de Hammerul Longbo (4:24) si Smartul Longbo (4:41)

Felicitari si Byd Auto pt Passatul fabricat de ei. (2:18)

Misto film. Ironia fiind ca pana la urma multi dintre copiati s-ar putea trezi cumparati de copiatori.

In fact, Roewe is exactly based on MG Rover75 because Rover has been bought by SAIC of China.
SAIC Roewe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So a company making a similar product of another company is called "fura" (stealing)? What logic is it?

Following statements can be derived using your logic:

Benz made the first car based on internal-combustion engine, so it is called "fura" if Ford makes similar cars.

Intel made the first microprocessor, so it is called "fura" if AMD makes X86 compatible microprocessors.

IBM made the first PC, so it is called "fura" if HP or Dell makes "IBM compatible” PCs.

Contax of Germany made the first pentaprizm SLR camera, so it is called "fura" if Nikon or Pentax makes similar SLR cameras.

McDonald's built the first fast-food chain restaurants and sold burgers and French fries, so it is called "fura" if Burger King builds fast-food chain restaurants and sells burgers and French fries.
...

You guys have no idea about what is called “reverse engineering” or “me-too product” in industry and business, which is common practice in all countries throughout history. I was a member of a development team of a big US company and involved in the reverse engineering of the product of the other US company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarzavat

- pretul scazut al chinezariilor depinde in mare masura de EXPLOATAREA sarmanilor bastinasi, care muncesc 16 pe zi pe 150 E/luna+bonus 3 castroane de orez/zi

You have no idea what Chinese are eating now. Most likely, Chinese living in the cities have more varieties of foods than in Romania. Please see a few casual videos of supermarkets in China.