China - o noua putere mondiala

[Ivan]

Originally Posted by Rholes

ce naiba, e totul in engleza?
iar stresati care simt nevoia sa-si afiseze cunostintele de engleza?
o fi trendy sau cum ii zice?

Nu neaparat asta e motivul. Userul ablium poate citi in romana dar nu poate scrie, motiv pentru care scrie in engleza (nu ar vrea nimeni sa scrie in mandarina sau cantoneza, nu? ).
Ceilalti useri (respectiv cei care se pot exprima in romana) au fost rugati (sau avertizati) sa scrie in romana.
OK, o fraza, o expresie in engleza nu ne omoara, dar un post de un sfert de pagina trebuie sa fie in romana.

[low_level_superhero]

Ivan, nu poate citi in romana. Foloseste un translator online. (sau cum i-o zice). Daca tot vorbiti in romana, macar nu folositi abrevieri/chat talk/ "k", "dc", etc.

[ablium]

Barney,
Multumesc. Pot citi in romana, dar n-am asa de mult vocabular si nu stiu gramatica asa de bine. Deci, am nevoie de dictionar romana-engleza.

Originally Posted by ladyatrix

hehehe, e buna aia cu <discriminarea pozitiva a minoritatii din tibet>)

Ladyatrix: Those positive discriminations for ethnic minorities are facts. Many people in China know it. In fact, some Han Chinese are trying to find proof that they have ethnic minority identity so that they can get into a good university with lower college entrance examination score. (This is a case of abuse of "positive" discrimination.) Well, you can choose to believe what Tibet Independence organization says. China spent 4.2 billion dollars to build a railway to Tibet plateau. From Chinese side, the railway is interpreted as the deed to help the economic development of the transportation-isolated Tibet. From the western media and exiled Tibetans, the same railway is interpreted as the means to destroy Tibet culture and encourage Hanization of Tibet. It really depends on which interpretation you choose to believe. (By the way, India's largest city, Mumbai, had a few bomb explosions today. You can see how difficult to handle the ethnic minority problems from this news.)

I have said many times, China is a developing country although it has many first-class skyscraper cities. Urban-rural disparity is in every developing country and China is not an exception. The fundamental solution for solving rural poverty is the urbanization. There is no way that the peasants in China can have high productivity because the land area per capita is too low in China. With current urbanization growth rate at about 1% per year, it will need another 50 years for China to be completely modernized.

Originally Posted by ladyatrix

i am not saying that western society is perfect, but at least they dont came on a romanian forum to exagerate some things and lie about the others. a whole world knows about atrocities in tibet, and u came now and say that they are <positive> discriminations.

I don’t think that you have soild factual base to accuse me exaggerating and lying. However, if most people on this forum believe that this forum should be exclusively reserved for Romanian people, I will respect it and quit forever.

[Ivan]

Originally Posted by ablium

However, if most people on this forum believe that this forum should be exclusively reserved for Romanian people, I will respect it and quit forever.

Nu va face nimeni poll sa determine cine simpatizeaza pe cine. Pentru simplul motiv ca pe acest forum nu este democratie
Toata lumea este binevenita atat timp cat respecta regulile si se poarta cu bun-simt.

Cred ca puteti reveni la China, am chinuit destul cititorii cu mesaje offtopic.

[ladyatrix]

ablium,
am inteles ca te descurci sa citesti in romana

cred ca multi oameni doresc sa afle in ce directie se schimba lucrurile in china. tocmai pentru ca e un subiect incitant, e corect sa oferi o imagine nedeformata, care sa contina atat partile pozitive cat si cele negative.
personal, nu consider ca exemplul chinei este demn de urmat, nu e o tara democratica, partidul e pus in continuare mai presus de individ,se fac abuzuri peste abuzuri, sistemul politic de acolo este <un mutant>, care face compromisuri pentru a-si pastra puterea. china e o oala sub presiune si intreaga planeta e ingrozita de ideea ca ar putea exploda.
cand te-am intrebat de ce vorbesti doar despre lucrurile bune din china, ai zis ca esti convinsa ca am citit destule lucruri rele pe alte site-uri. bine, hai sa pictam totul in roz, sau de ce nu, in rosu, si seara, inainte de culcare sa citim cate o pagina din carticica rosie a lui mao.
spuneai undeva ca vrei ca romanii sa stie despre toate aceste realizari si sa traga concluzia ca prin munca o tara se poate ridica. am simtit nevoia sa-ti arat si partile negative ale chinei (poate nu le stiai!) ca sa intelegi de ce nu poate fi considerata un exemplu de urmat.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41640.htm


The country faced many economic challenges, including reform of SOEs and the banking system, growing unemployment and underemployment, an aging population, the need to construct an effective social safety net, and rapidly widening income gaps between coastal and interior regions and between urban and rural areas. In recent years, between 100 and 150 million persons voluntarily left rural areas to search for better jobs and living conditions in cities, where they were often denied access to government-provided economic and social benefits, including education and health care. The Government continued to relax controls over migration from rural to urban areas, and many cities took steps to expand the rights of migrants and their dependents to basic social services. In the industrial sector, continued downsizing of SOEs contributed to rising urban unemployment that was widely believed to be much higher than the officially estimated 4 percent, with many sources estimating the actual figure to be as high as 20 percent. The Government reported that urban per capita disposable income in 2003 was $1,028 and grew by 9 percent over the previous year, while rural per capita cash income was $317 and grew by 4 percent. Official estimates of the percentage of citizens living in absolute poverty showed little change from the previous year. The Government estimated that 30 million persons lived in poverty, and the World Bank estimated the number whose income does not exceed one dollar per day to be 100 to 150 million persons.

The Government's human rights record remained poor, and the Government continued to commit numerous and serious abuses. Citizens did not have the right to change their government, and many who openly expressed dissenting political views were harassed, detained, or imprisoned, particularly in a campaign late in the year against writers, religious activists, dissidents, and petitioners to the Central Government. Authorities were quick to suppress religious, political, and social groups that they perceived as threatening to government authority or national stability, especially before sensitive dates such as the 15th anniversary of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre and other significant political and religious occasions. However, the Constitution was amended to mention human rights for the first time.

Abuses included instances of extrajudicial killings; torture and mistreatment of prisoners, leading to numerous deaths in custody; coerced confessions; arbitrary arrest and detention; and incommunicado detention. The judiciary was not independent, and the lack of due process remained a serious problem. The lack of due process was particularly egregious in death penalty cases, and the accused was often denied a meaningful appeal. Executions often took place on the day of conviction or on the denial of an appeal. In Xinjiang, trials and executions of Uighurs charged with separatism continued. Government pressure continued to make it difficult for lawyers to represent criminal defendants. The authorities routinely violated legal protections in the cases of political dissidents and religious figures. They generally attached higher priority to suppressing political opposition and maintaining public order than to enforcing legal norms or protecting individual rights. According to 2003 government statistics, more than 250,000 persons were serving sentences in "reeducation-through-labor" camps and other forms of administrative detention not subject to judicial review. Other experts reported that more than 310,000 persons were serving sentences in these camps in 2003.

nu inteleg cum poti sa dai exemplu o tara care are lagare de re-educare.
sigur, acum ai sa spui din nou ca nu am dovezi, asa cum ai spus cand am postat despre tibet. care ar fi dovada? sa ma duc sa vad cu ochii mei? cam greu, dupa cum vezi:
The Government also regulated foreign travel to the TAR. In accordance with a 1989 regulation, foreign visitors (excluding individuals from Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan) were required to obtain an official confirmation letter issued by the Chinese Government before entering the TAR. Most tourists obtained such letters by booking tours through officially registered travel agencies. In July, state media announced that foreign tourists would enjoy "unrestricted access to all 70 counties of the TAR." However, TAR authorities were unable to confirm the change, and travelers reported that many restrictions remained in place. Official visits to the TAR were supervised closely and afforded delegation members very few opportunities to meet local persons not previously approved by the authorities. Foreigners could travel freely in most Tibetan areas outside the TAR. In March, authorities lifted restrictions on foreign travel to the last four closed counties in Sichuan's Ngaba Prefecture.

da nu-i nimic, tu mai da-ne poze cu skyskrapere.

ps. despre copii din tibet- sigur ca se fac eforturi sa fie trimisi la scoala, de ce sa nu se faca daca oricum, din scoala secundara studiaza doar in chineza. e adevarat ca se plateste pentru scoala elementara in china?
"The reason for the fact that no one of our family went to school was that the school fees were too high for my parents. The lobchung (primary school) in our village cost 200 yuan a month. My parents could have never afforded that." (A 20)
"At school the teachers demanded 50 yuan a month to sit on a chair, 50 yuan to have a table and another 25 yuan for the books. My father was a lorry driver for the Chinese government. He received only 50 yuan a month. For this money we had to buy a sack of tsampa (roasted barley) to have some food. So my parents could not afford to send me to school." (A 23)

[ablium]

The five faces of the China pheonomenon written by Finland's State Secretary for Trade and Industry.
http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...10006537.shtml

China's GDP Grows 10.9 Percent in 2Q
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4043739.html

China auto sales rise nearly 50% percent in first half
http://today.reuters.com/investing/F...UTOS-CHINA.xml

[Zarzavat]

deja incepe sa semene cu depasirile productziei industriale cu 120%, depasirile productziei agricole cu 150% la hectar, etc. ca pe vremurile de dinainte de '89, din romania.

[SF]

SHOULD THE US TAKE A PAGE OUT OF CHINA'S SCHOOLBOOK?
American students trail their Chinese peers in science because science is the linchpin of China's educational system.

http://www.seedmagazine.com/news/200...a_page_out.php

In SUA se discuta la modul cel mai serios problema predarii Creationismului/Intelligent Design in scoli. Loool!

[De Beers]

ablium .. don't drain the brain from us

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...10006531.shtml

..

Five faces of China

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin...10006537.shtml

At the same time one must remember that the EU as a whole has become China’s most important trading partner. Finland's exports to and imports from China are broadly in balance. Finnish exports to China increased more than 60% in 2004. This indicates that Finland’s small economy is strongly drawn to China.

[Zarzavat]

cand natura se supara, mai tempereaza avantul economic al chinei

http://edition.cnn.com/video/player/...ods.reut&wm=10

[ablium]

Originally Posted by ladyatrix

personal, nu consider ca exemplul chinei este demn de urmat, nu e o tara democratica, partidul e pus in continuare mai presus de individ,se fac abuzuri peste abuzuri, sistemul politic de acolo este <un mutant>, care face compromisuri pentru a-si pastra puterea. china e o oala sub presiune si intreaga planeta e ingrozita de ideea ca ar putea exploda.

In general, China is not a model for any country to follow. Every country has different social-economic development levels, culture, value systems, history, and geography. There is no doubt that China has tremendous social-economic problems. I personally don't like a lot of China's political system and business culture. Maybe some of specific strategy and economic policy that China used to attract foreign direct investment can be adopted by Romania.

Originally Posted by De Beers

ablium .. don't drain the brain from us

I don’t think that China is rich enough to attract foreign talents. The main purpose for multinationals to set up R&D centers in China is to help local adaptation and marketing of the products of multinational. The only brain drain to China that I had heard was some Russian scientists working in China during 1990s when Russian had very difficult economy.

[De Beers]

Originally Posted by ablium

the only brain drain to China that I had heard was some Russian scientists working in China during 1990s when Russian had very difficult economy.

ablium .. I was joking.


china "drains" only because of the cheap labour force and political system. as you said, only a few russians in the 90's, the rest of "draining" is the economy of small countries with free trade and lazy citizens

[ablium]

Is current China's economy overheated? If China can maintain its current economic growth rate, China's GDP (based on PPP) will surpass that of US within just five years.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...pStories_ssi_5

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/Business


It seems that China is heavily investing in science and new technology too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ts/5194192.stm

http://english.people.com.cn/200607/...19_284697.html

[ladyatrix]

Google, Yahoo si Microsoft sunt acuzate de incalcarea flagranta a Declaratiei Universale a Drepturilor Omului prin acceptarea tacita a cenzurii practicate de statul chinez in ceea ce priveste internetul, se arata intr-un raport al organizatiei Amnesty International.
http://www.hotnews.ro/articol_52724-...lor-omului.htm
http://www.hotnews.ro/arhiva_avt/2911.pdf


Chinese journalist, Shi Tao, is serving a 10 year prison sentence for sending an email from his Yahoo! account.

In 2004 Shi Tao sent details of an internal government directive instructing journalists how to handle media coverage of the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square crackdown to a US-based website.

He was charged with "illegally providing state secrets to foreign entities' and sentenced to 10 years' imprisonment. Disturbingly Yahoo! China provided account holder information to the Chinese Government which led to his unjust imprisonment

[ixtl]

Business >> Declaratia Drepturilor Omului
Nu e frumos si cinstit si omeneste?
Nu conteaza, cata vreme se vinde.

Fiecare e liber sa lupte ca sa remedieze situatia.

[ablium]

Bucharest getting a face-lift ahead of EU entry
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=371595

[ladyatrix]

ciudata senzatie de deja vu:

The core problem is corruption, which Pei describes as "endemic" and "systemic." Both the failures and the successes of reform seem to encourage it. Over the past few decades, the government has become larger and more decentralized -- and more predatory. Decentralization, intended to stimulate initiative, has instead led to more frequent bribery of local officials. Because government cadres are pessimistic about the regime's longevity, they have an incentive to get rich while they can. As a result, Pei says, some local governments have become "Mafia states" allied with criminal gangs. Rather than enforcing honesty, the party survives through patronage. Thanks to rising prosperity, the political elite can cream off resources without impoverishing the nouveaux riches. The political class thus has no incentive to undertake authentic reform.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/200607...tagnation.html


Of course, even the most astute analysis of current trends may not accurately predict the future. Major changes in a society, as China's past amply illustrates, are often disjunctive. And so it is prudent to ask what events could derail whatever process is taking place in China today. Two wild cards stand out as being of sufficient magnitude to potentially change the course of China's history: one is a drastic weakening of the U.S. economy that would destroy the livelihood of many Chinese and disrupt the social contract between the CCP and the Chinese people; the other is a war between China and the United States over Taiwan that would dramatically alter China's relations with the rest of the world and attitudes within China itself. Other, less likely events, such as a war on the Korean Peninsula or a mismanaged epidemic, could have equally far-reaching effects. The possibility of such external shocks to the Chinese political system highlights the fact that China's future has become inseparable from that of the rest of the world.

Although U.S. influence over China's internal development is probably marginal, it is interesting to reflect on American leaders' ambivalence about the future they want for China. Democracy, prosperity, stability, freedom, rule of law -- if all good things go together, U.S. policymakers face no difficult choice. But because change is risky, Washington seems to want it both ways: Washington wants to sustain a dictatorial regime in China because the current government in Beijing is a familiar interlocutor, while at the same time it wants to push China to democratize. Chinese leaders are said to worry a lot about whether the United States would like to see a "color revolution" in China. At this point, the answer has to be that U.S. leaders do not know themselves.

[ablium]

Pictures of Bucuresti
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...20#post9403420

I am familiar with many streets and buildings in the pictures. The area near Hotel Intercontinental in the center of Bucuresti has not changed much since I left Romania twenty years ago. Some of old buildings in Bucuresti, probably built before World War II, are quite elegant.

Cinema Capitol is still there. I watched several movies there.

Brasov is very beautiful
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=243549


A lot of pictures of Romania in a Polish forum
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...4&page=1&pp=20

[ablium]

Video, China pledges crackdown on poor quality and fake goods
http://euronews.net/create_html.php?...=372062&lng=1#
I hope someday all counterfeited Chinese products will disappear from Romanian market


Pictures of Beijing 2008 Olympic Stadiums under construction
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...4&page=3&pp=20

The 2008 Olympic Game opening ceremony will be in this stadium (Bird Nest). (Huge picture, scroll to view the whole picture)
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne...8403292&size=o

[Ivan]

Originally Posted by ablium

I hope someday all counterfeited Chinese products will disappear from Romanian market

Cat timp exista cerere nu au cum sa dispara.