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02-09-2008, 10:49
| #1681 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User  Join Date: May 2005 | Quote:
"In an interview with The Washington Post on November 11, 2003, Soros said that removing President George W. Bush from office was the "central focus of my life" and "a matter of life and death." Ia sa vedem un miliardar chinez care declara asta despre partid sau presedinte.
__________________ When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself. | ||
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02-09-2008, 22:42
| #1683 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: May 2005 |
You have not answered my question. What happens to a chinese, rich or poor, who openly declares that it is his goal in life and a matter of life and death to see the party or the president gone from office ?
__________________ When did I realize I was God? Well, I was praying and I suddenly realized I was talking to myself. | ||
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02-09-2008, 23:50
| #1684 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
They become terrorists, of course. Dozens of regions full of terrorists stand as a proof for this. Freedom of speech? Shhh, are you nuts? .. Ablium, presenting the facts for google or microsoft is not in your advantage, lenovo did not buy the notebook division from IBM when that company was small (like microsoft with ms-dos, from your example), they bought it when it was already very large. If they made that move when ibm divivion (or another one from now, let's say facebook) was small, and improved it so much as to become the market leader, this would have been a different situation. This is not inovation, this is the power of the exchange rate and small labor costs. Like now, if a small company would try to invent something (let's say a new method for cheaper lithium ion batteries) and risk some not so small amounts of money for this in the long term, first they would find it difficult to patent and protect their ideea from their own state (who's copying others without any problem, no matter how big is the name, not to mention the smaller ones) and second, they would find themselfs in a mafia controled state, without any guarantees for future properties or actual ones. No wonder everyone prefers to stay small (star-up), just like a small shop, like you said. This is typical for ex-communist states. Last edited by Extra3OO; 03-09-2008 at 00:23.. | ||
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03-09-2008, 02:17
| #1685 (permalink) | |||
| Registered User  Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth | Quote:
Quote:
Before you engage a debate with someone, please learn what Straw Man Fallacy is. Quote:
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03-09-2008, 03:21
| #1686 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
Guess what ablium, If Lenovo is not an innovative company right in this moment, they would probably be extinct in the next few years. Why? Because innovation is the base for adaptation. And if they don't adapt fast to the market they will share the same destiny as commodore or dinos. Luckily they are innovative enough to bring good products and stay, despite your oppinion. You could blame some british firm for this probably, and it's better this way. If it were some chinese institute doing the reseasch i can bet no one (in the western world) would buy those notebooks as they are today. Why? Guess again, innovation from the smallest size to the sky. Not the opposite. Not this new form of slavery, not using people like a disciplined army.  And please don't send me to wiki because i have tried to read this thread from the begining, you try to evade to the chinese fakes question, mercedes cloning or the intelectual property rights, everytime. And if daimler benz could not protect his brand there, what can i say about some small start-up? (which btw, you admit that they are still small even after this long time of development/transition - why not much bigger, not to make any competition to the state?) Anyway, it's a double side situation. It's risky to create liberty as we know it, creativity (therefore instability) in that part of the world, it's risky mainly because some fat americans could not take long vacations as they are today. The cost of liberties does not matter, 1000 chinese workers deserve the same payroll as one big fat mcdonalds warrior. Last edited by Extra3OO; 03-09-2008 at 03:32.. | ||
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03-09-2008, 12:17
| #1687 (permalink) | |||
| Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth | Quote:
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Under current international IP legal frame, the validity and jurisdiction of a patent are based on the laws of individual countries (but EU is unified bloc), but copyright which covers software piracy protection is enforced by the international copyright treaty. Copying and imitating of a certain technology do not necessarily constitute a violation of IP law, although they may receive bad reputation. Firstly, not all technologies are patentable and not all patented technologies are within patent validity period. Most designs are not patentable. Typical validity period of a patent is between 10 to 20 years depending on the patent laws of individual countries. If a Chinese company copies a Mercedes’ technology that still hold a valid EU patent and the company sells its cars only in China, it does not violate any patent law unless Daimler Benz has also been granted a patent for the technology in China. However, if the Chinese company sells cars with the technology in EU, it will constitutes patent infringement in EU. If Daimler Benz holds a valid Chinese patent for the technology, Daimler Benz has full right to sue the Chinese company for patent infringement in a Chinese court. If a Chinese company makes a car using Mercedes brand without the authorization of Daimler Benz, it will violate trade mark law (I assume that the trade mark of Mercedes Benz has been registered in China) and Daimler Benz has full right to sue the Chinese company in a Chinese court. Does China have many cases of patent infringement? Yes, it does as in any countries. Does China have many cases of trademark counterfeit and copyright violation? Yes, it certainly does as in any developing countries. I am pretty sure that it does not lack of software piracy in Romania either. It is just because of the size of China, which makes it more prominent in this issue. Quote:
Last edited by ablium; 03-09-2008 at 12:18.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost | |||
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03-09-2008, 13:45
| #1688 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
Huawei is a very good example, probably it was developed as RDS, here in Romania. What is the connection to the ex-communist leaders from 20 yrs ago is a very good question. I can bet that Russia biggest internet provider offers the same Huawei (nokia clone) mobile telephone. As for IBM/Lenovo you missed the point again, I was not talking about RISC architecture or microprocessors, I was talking about notebook design. This year all the competitors are betting on "slim". They have adapted to this but after some time, too much time (if you ask me). If they had the courage to do this 6 months ago I can say for sure that they would had more coverage on the net. Same thing if they would have the guts to replace the cd-rom with some small ssd raid, by default, not option as they do now. Cd-rom could be external but it takes an innovative mind to see this. No patents pending will stand against you if you do this. | ||
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03-09-2008, 16:33
| #1689 (permalink) | |||
| Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth | Quote:
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The traditional customers of IBM ThinkPad notebook are corporate users, not general consumers. The top priority of this product line is reliability and rigidity, but not fashionable design and not even performance. In fact, the external design of IBM ThinkPad notebook computers has not changed much for many years. SSD ( Solid-State Drive) replace hard disk, but not CD-rom (currently mostly DVD/CD-rom). Next generation of CD-Rom is Blue-Ray DVD drive which will allow memory size to increase upto about 50GB per disk. SSD has not been adopted in notebook computers until recently because several disadvantage of SSD although SSD has some advantages comparing to hard disk. Firstly, Flash-memory based SSD is much more expensive than hard disk drive. Secondly, SSD has lower storage density. (The storage density of both hard disk and solid-state memory continually improved in last a few decades, but hard disk always led over flash memory or other type of solid-state memory devices.) Thirdly, SSD based on flash-memory chip has limited write cycles, typically at 100,000 cycles. (Some specially made high endurance flash memory may reach a million cycles). Quote:
Last edited by ablium; 03-09-2008 at 17:01.. | |||
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03-09-2008, 18:38
| #1690 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
Ablium, romania had patents since 1920, I really don't think you should continue on this direction because the majority of the romanian population knows what is a patent or it's definition. If you take 100 romanians, I think 5 or 10 of them will tell you even the legal difference between invention and innovation, something you will not see in china, maybe only one in a thousand (or 100.000!!) people could do this. So you can define the terms for yourself, first. I was talking about the design innovation, bold ideeas, first to make something others did not have the inspiration or courage to do. Stuff like SSD instead of Cd/DVD/Blueray, this ideea cannot be patented (yes, this is what I said in the beginning) and could be a major advantage in notebook market, especially in the bussines class. Why? Heat and space, you name it, blueray could be external. Lenovo already has a cd-rom caddy where you could put an SSD or hard-disk if you want (as an option) but I am talking about a different configuration from the start, they could build notebooks with cdrom drive replaced by default. Use it the external (like apple) from the beginning. Bold ideas. Apple was the first company to do this, why did not have Lenovo done this instead? Apple has more guts? Don't think so. I'm not talking about colours or fashion here, this is utility and practical thinking. Creative thinking. This is not rocket science, this could be done from a small scale, it's easy and maybe even cheaper. This is the kind of creativity China doesn't have. This is what I am trying to say, I'm not talking about technical specifications of SSD, nor the patents and legal procedure involved. This is the design innovation / adaptation I was reffering in the last post. This is where China has to do a lot. You could see the difference very easy when you compare with other western products, "chinezaria" is "ugly" so to speak. I'm not trying to offend anyone, that fact is a shame, no matter how good are the materials used in production, the lack of tradition and style is very obvious. Maybe for the chinese people that quality and "feeling" is good and acceptable (or maybe desirable), for any western conterpart is not. You could say this even when looking at a webpage. I'm not trying to change the culture or tradition, I am reffering only to the "attention to details" part of it, in witch China was a leader centuries ago (remember the paintings on rice and so on). What happened to that tradition? What is the communist contribution to this? It's a shame that you refuse to talk about the dark side of the "cultural revolution", the creativity and tradition lost because of it. Chinese brands could be fighting in the market with leaders like Apple or any other, but when you refuse to admit there is a problem with basic innovation and creativity, you cannot improve the "feeling" and quality of your products. Even when you use much better materials. And it's bad for everyone. I can explain this only from the point of view where communist had the power, the decision to make something or not. This is the biggest problem for ex-communist countries too. They cannot adapt to a constantly changing market, they are not the "capitalist pigs" that make some kind of "design revolutions", the market genius that invent something to resist in the wild. Because they are not used to a free maket. They are not used to reinvent themselfs or their products constantly. This is why you will see a good ideea somewhere else, first. Not in China. Not in excommunist Romania or Russia (and please don't give me 1950 examples, try a more actual ones). This is the main creativity killer, for us and maybe for you. Without this, without competition you cannot have any sustainable growth nor a good and stable free market. Huawei argument is probably against you as well, the board of directors are probably very linked to the old communist leaders, just like RDS in romania or another ISP is in russia (this is what I was trying to say in my post). The fact that you could be "big" only if you have strong ties with that old nomenklatura should be a very strong argument to you. This is the main cause for the lack of creativity/innovation I was reffering, not the nokia/cisco technical design. Anyway, I'm not trying to argue with you about your qualification or expertise. I want only a different approach to this subject, I want that you could explain to me or others the big difference and large gap in this innovation/creativity domain, not the technical/legal point of view or motivation for the Daimler Benz clones. I know this just as well as you do, maybe. I know also that the "west" is trying for some good years to protect his products and nothing has changed, the same indifference and lack of respect remains in this field just like romania was ignoring the west behind the iron curtain, some 30 years ago. The effect of this unopen thinking could be seen even today in Romania, this effect will be seen in China for a long time in the future too. Last edited by Extra3OO; 03-09-2008 at 18:50.. | ||
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03-09-2008, 19:05
| #1691 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth | Quote:
Last edited by ablium; 03-09-2008 at 19:20.. | ||
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03-09-2008, 19:26
| #1692 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
Well, this you should find for yourself, you are the one "more qualified" to talk IP. Innovation vs invention | ||
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03-09-2008, 19:36
| #1694 (permalink) | ||
| Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 |
Lazy people get fat. Like the chinese or american majority. Invention is revolutionary, changes a whole market like a landmark or invents a new one. Innovation is only a small improvment, not big enough to start a new industry, for example. From a legal point of view I'm sure there are some differences, the number of other patents used in innovation is much higher than in the case of an invention. Innovation can be a better method to make something others do as well, invention creates a new thing or method, obtained only by you and witch can't be compared to what others do in the same domain. Inventions can be a sum of innovations from another field but applied for the first time in a new domain. Innovations apply only to the same domain just improving what others have done already. Last edited by Extra3OO; 03-09-2008 at 19:55.. | ||
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03-09-2008, 19:52
| #1695 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth |
^ This is even not correct in addressing the definition differences between invention and innovation. Check a dictionary. You did not mention any legal differences, by the way. In fact, I can tell you that there is no law addressing the difference between the concepts of invention and innovation. | ||
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03-09-2008, 22:21
| #1697 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Republic of Earth |
^ You wrote "If you take 100 romanians, I think 5 or 10 of them will tell you even the legal difference between invention and innovation, something you will not see in china, maybe only one in a thousand (or 100.000!!) people could do this." while there is in fact no such thing called "legal difference between invention and innovation". You don't know what you are talking about. Accept it! | ||
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04-09-2008, 01:37
| #1699 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User  Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: pe insula | A good read, for those who don't know the facts: In Beijing, on October 1, 1949, Mao Zedong proclaimed the founding of the People's Republic of China. The new government assumed control of a people exhausted by two generations of war and social conflict, and an economy ravaged by high inflation and disrupted transportation links. A new political and economic order modeled on the Soviet example was quickly installed. In the early 1950s, China undertook a massive economic and social reconstruction. The new leaders gained popular support by curbing inflation, restoring the economy, and rebuilding many war-damaged industrial plants. The CCP's authority reached into almost every phase of Chinese life. Party control was assured by large, politically loyal security and military forces; a government apparatus responsive to party direction; and ranks of party members in labor, women's, and other mass organizations. The "Great Leap Forward" and the Sino-Soviet Split In 1958, Mao broke with the Soviet model and announced a new economic program, the "Great Leap Forward," aimed at rapidly raising industrial and agricultural production. Giant cooperatives (communes) were formed, and "backyard factories" dotted the Chinese landscape. The results were disastrous. Normal market mechanisms were disrupted, agricultural production fell behind, and China's people exhausted themselves producing what turned out to be shoddy, unsalable goods. Within a year, starvation appeared even in fertile agricultural areas. From 1960 to 1961, the combination of poor planning during the Great Leap Forward and bad weather resulted in famine. The already strained Sino-Soviet relationship deteriorated sharply in 1959, when the Soviets started to restrict the flow of scientific and technological information to China. The dispute escalated, and the Soviets withdrew all of their personnel from China in August 1960. In 1960, the Soviets and the Chinese began to have disputes openly in international forums. The Cultural Revolution In the early 1960s, State President Liu Shaoqi and his protege, Party General Secretary Deng Xiaoping, took over direction of the party and adopted pragmatic economic policies at odds with Mao's revolutionary vision. Dissatisfied with China's new direction and his own reduced authority, Party Chairman Mao launched a massive political attack on Liu, Deng, and other pragmatists in the spring of 1966. The new movement, the "Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution," was unprecedented in Communist history. For the first time, a section of the Chinese Communist leadership sought to rally popular opposition against another leadership group. China was set on a course of political and social anarchy which lasted the better part of a decade. In the early stages of the Cultural Revolution, Mao and his "closest comrade in arms," National Defense Minister Lin Biao, charged Liu, Deng, and other top party leaders with dragging China back toward capitalism. Radical youth organizations, called Red Guards, attacked party and state organizations at all levels, seeking out leaders who would not bend to the radical wind. In reaction to this turmoil, some local People's Liberation Army (PLA) commanders and other officials maneuvered to outwardly back Mao and the radicals while actually taking steps to rein in local radical activity. Gradually, Red Guard and other radical activity subsided, and the Chinese political situation stabilized along complex factional lines. The leadership conflict came to a head in September 1971, when Party Vice Chairman and Defense Minister Lin Biao reportedly tried to stage a coup against Mao; Lin Biao allegedly later died in a plane crash in Mongolia. In the aftermath of the Lin Biao incident, many officials criticized and dismissed during 1966-69 were reinstated. Chief among these was Deng Xiaoping, who reemerged in 1973 and was confirmed in 1975 in the concurrent posts of Politburo Standing Committee member, PLA Chief of Staff, and Vice Premier. The ideological struggle between more pragmatic, veteran party officials and the radicals re-emerged with a vengeance in late 1975. Mao's wife, Jiang Qing, and three close Cultural Revolution associates (later dubbed the "Gang of Four") launched a media campaign against Deng. In January of 1976, Premier Zhou Enlai, a popular political figure, died of cancer. On April 5, Beijing citizens staged a spontaneous demonstration in Tiananmen Square in Zhou's memory, with strong political overtones in support of Deng. The authorities forcibly suppressed the demonstration. Deng was blamed for the disorder and stripped of all official positions, although he retained his party membership. The Post-Mao Era Mao's death in September 1976 removed a towering figure from Chinese politics and set off a scramble for succession. Former Minister of Pubic Security Hua Guofeng was quickly confirmed as Party Chairman and Premier. A month after Mao's death, Hua, backed by the PLA, arrested Jiang Qing and other members of the "Gang of Four." After extensive deliberations, the Chinese Communist Party leadership reinstated Deng Xiaoping to all of his previous posts at the 11th Party Congress in August 1977. Deng then led the effort to place government control in the hands of veteran party officials opposed to the radical excesses of the previous two decades. The new, pragmatic leadership emphasized economic development and renounced mass political movements. At the pivotal December 1978 Third Plenum (of the 11th Party Congress Central Committee), the leadership adopted economic reform policies aimed at expanding rural income and incentives, encouraging experiments in enterprise autonomy, reducing central planning, and establishing direct foreign investment in China. The plenum also decided to accelerate the pace of legal reform, culminating in the passage of several new legal codes by the National People's Congress in June 1979. After 1979, the Chinese leadership moved toward more pragmatic positions in almost all fields. The party encouraged artists, writers, and journalists to adopt more critical approaches, although open attacks on party authority were not permitted. In late 1980, Mao's Cultural Revolution was officially proclaimed a catastrophe. Hua Guofeng, a protege of Mao, was replaced as Premier in 1980 by reformist Sichuan party chief Zhao Ziyang and as party General Secretary in 1981 by the even more reformist Communist Youth League chairman Hu Yaobang. Reform policies brought great improvements in the standard of living, especially for urban workers and for farmers who took advantage of opportunities to diversify crops and establish village industries. Literature and the arts blossomed, and Chinese intellectuals established extensive links with scholars in other countries. At the same time, however, political dissent as well as social problems such as inflation, urban migration, and prostitution emerged. Although students and intellectuals urged greater reforms, some party elders increasingly questioned the pace and the ultimate goals of the reform program. In December of 1986, student demonstrators, taking advantage of the loosening political atmosphere, staged protests against the slow pace of reform, confirming party elders' fear that the current reform program was leading to social instability. Hu Yaobang, a protege of Deng and a leading advocate of reform, was blamed for the protests and forced to resign as CCP General Secretary in January 1987. Premier Zhao Ziyang was made General Secretary and Li Peng, former Vice Premier and Minister of Electric Power and Water Conservancy, was made Premier.
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04-09-2008, 01:38
| #1700 (permalink) | ||
| Registered User Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: pe insula | 1989 Student Movement and Tiananmen Square After Zhao became the party General Secretary, the economic and political reforms he had championed came under increasing attack. His proposal in May 1988 to accelerate price reform led to widespread popular complaints about rampant inflation and gave opponents of rapid reform the opening to call for greater centralization of economic controls and stricter prohibitions against Western influence. This precipitated a political debate, which grew more heated through the winter of 1988-89. The death of Hu Yaobang on April 15, 1989, coupled with growing economic hardship caused by high inflation, provided the backdrop for a large-scale protest movement by students, intellectuals, and other parts of a disaffected urban population. University students and other citizens in Beijing camped out at Tiananmen Square to mourn Hu's death and to protest against those who would slow reform. Their protests, which grew despite government efforts to contain them, called for an end to official corruption and for defense of freedoms guaranteed by the Chinese Constitution. Protests also spread through many other cities, including Shanghai and Guangzhou. Martial law was declared on May 20, 1989. Late on July 3 and early on the morning of June 4, military units were brought into Beijing. They used armed force to clear demonstrators from the streets. After June 4, the central government eliminated remaining sources of organized opposition, detained large numbers of protesters, and required political reeducation not only for students but also for large numbers of party cadre and government officials. Following the resurgence of conservatives in the aftermath of June 4, economic reform slowed until given new impetus by Deng Xiaoping's dramatic visit to southern China in early 1992. Deng's renewed push for a market-oriented economy received official sanction at the 14th Party Congress later in the year as a number of younger, reform-minded leaders began their rise to top positions. Deng and his supporters argued that managing the economy in a way that increased living standards should be China's primary policy objective, even if "capitalist" measures were adopted. Subsequent to the visit, the Communist Party Politburo publicly issued an endorsement of Deng's policies of economic openness. Though not completely eschewing political reform, China has consistently placed overwhelming priority on the opening of its economy. Third Generation of Leaders Deng's health deteriorated in the years prior to his death in 1997. During that time, President Jiang Zemin and other members of his generation gradually assumed control of the day-to-day functions of government. This "third generation" leadership governs collectively with President Jiang at the center. In March 1998, Jiang was re-elected President during the 9th National People's Congress. Premier Li Peng was constitutionally required to step down from that post. He was elected to the chairmanship of the National People's Congress. Zhu Rongji was selected to replace Li as Premier. China is firmly committed to economic reform and opening to the outside world. The Chinese leadership has identified reform of state industries as a government priority. Government strategies for achieving that goal include large-scale privatization of unprofitable state-owned enterprises. The leadership has also downsized the government bureaucracy. POLITICAL CONDITIONS Legal System The government's efforts to promote rule of law are significant and ongoing. After the Cultural Revolution, China's leaders aimed to develop a legal system to restrain abuses of official authority and revolutionary excesses. In 1982, the National People's Congress adopted a new state constitution that emphasized the rule of law under which even party leaders are theoretically held accountable. Since 1979, when the drive to establish a functioning legal system began, more than 300 laws and regulations, most of them in the economic area, have been promulgated. The use of mediation committees--informed groups of citizens who resolve about 90% of China's civil disputes and some minor criminal cases at no cost to the parties--is one innovative device. There are more than 800,000 such committees in both rural and urban areas. Legal reform became a government priority in the 1990s. Legislation designed to modernize and professionalize the nation's lawyers, judges, and prisons was enacted. The 1994 Administrative Procedure Law allows citizens to sue officials for abuse of authority or malfeasance. In addition, the criminal law and the criminal procedures laws were amended to introduce significant reforms. The criminal law amendments abolished the crime of "counter-revolutionary" activity, while criminal procedures reforms encouraged establishment of a more transparent, adversarial trial process. The Chinese Constitution and laws provide for fundamental human rights, including due process. Human Rights China has acknowledged in principle the importance of protection of human rights and has taken steps to bring its human rights practices into conformity with international norms. Among these steps are signature in October 1997 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights and signature in October 1998 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. China has also expanded dialogue with foreign governments. These positive steps not withstanding, serious problems remain.
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