China - o noua putere mondiala

[stiller]

Originally Posted by Raduccio

Chinezii sunt tare inventivi...

Ce intelegi prin "chinezii" in fraza de mai sus?

[Zarzavat]

intr-adevar, china este o superputere mondiala de mare perspectiva. produsele ei calitative si originale au cucerit toate pietele mondiale. o tara cu atatia locuitori e foarte usor de hranit prin suprafara agricola intinsa (90% din teritoriu). industria duduie sanatos, nefiind catusi de putin poluanta (reportajele cu ploi acide si alte nenorociri sunt doar niste facaturi ieftine) si nici dependenta de resurse naturale aflate in ograda altor tari. china nu reprezinta in niciun caz o piata de desfacere si mana de lucru ieftina pentru imperialistii occidentali, ci un concurent serios in toate domeniile. china nu depinde catusi de putin de globalizare. un viitor maret ii asteapta pe chinezi. sunt gelos recunosc

[Ivan]

Am intervenit usurel pe topic.
Cine are argumente sau fapte este binevenit, cine se prezinta doar ca sa faca misto sau sa porcaiasca partenerii de discutie este rugat sa se mute. Si am inceput cu valh si Extra3OO.

Spre exemplu postul de deasupra (salut Zarzavat, tu esti?) este la limita penalizarii. Desi faptele sugerate in post sunt in mare acceptate ca fiind reale (intr-o masura mai mare sau mai mica) - tonul care razbate din post este neplacut. Oarecum nedemn de un macho

[Zarzavat]

scuze grande serif, da' sunt suparat si eu (n-ai vazt ce-a patit amicu' raikkonen? )
sper ca "n-am facut vreo aroganta" am vrut doar sa ironizez un pic fabulatiile unora... realitatea nu e chiar asa de roz cum o picteaza unii. china e foarte dependenta de multi si de multe. e destul de fragila de fapt...

[ablium]

Originally Posted by Zarzavat

intr-adevar, china este o superputere mondiala de mare perspectiva. produsele ei calitative si originale au cucerit toate pietele mondiale. o tara cu atatia locuitori e foarte usor de hranit prin suprafara agricola intinsa (90% din teritoriu). industria duduie sanatos, nefiind catusi de putin poluanta (reportajele cu ploi acide si alte nenorociri sunt doar niste facaturi ieftine) si nici dependenta de resurse naturale aflate in ograda altor tari. china nu reprezinta in niciun caz o piata de desfacere si mana de lucru ieftina pentru imperialistii occidentali, ci un concurent serios in toate domeniile. china nu depinde catusi de putin de globalizare. un viitor maret ii asteapta pe chinezi. sunt gelos recunosc

What you said about issues facing China through your ironic way is largely true. Regarding the quality and originality of Chinese products, it is a soluble problem. In fact, I see consistent improvement in this area in past years and it will continue to improve in the future as all indicators have shown. Even the pollution issues seem to be also a soluble problem. In my personal experience, the air quality in Chinese cities has improved in last a few years.

The biggest problem facing China’s further development is natural resources, which has no clear solution and is likely getting worse in the future. I personally believe that nature resource will eventually determine the limit of China’s future development. China has only 7% world arable land and has to feed 20% of world population. The usage of agriculture resource of China has been nearly pushed to the limit today. China has only about a half of arable land of USA, but China has to feed four times of population of USA. Americans can afford to make methanol and ethanol fuel from corn, Chinese definitely can’t. China currently imports about a half of its oil consumption. The dependence of foreign oil is already at about the same level as USA. About 50% iron ore that feeds China’s steel factories are imported from Australia, Brazil, and several other countries. Maybe, energy problem can be solved with future technology breakthrough, but I don’t see how mineral problem can be solved in the future.

[AxA]

Well, excuse me if I sound a bit cynical, but maybe this would solve China's population issue, and it would somehow naturally sort itself out... Much better than enforced by law, by not allowing people to have more than one child. We all know what that stupid law did (people killing their first born daughters, just because they wanted a boy) and so on... And the worse consequences of that law are still yet to come, in about 20 years China will face so many pensioners and so less working people, as there were just not enough born to sustain the non working retired people... It's tough, I know, to find the right balance between being underpopulated, overpopulated, or starving because of that... Fully opening the borders my be one of the solutions, but this again, can be very risky, especially for the government... and somehow for the rest of the world too.

[ablium]

Originally Posted by Raduccio

Chinezii sunt tare inventivi... NOT! Ma mir ca au avut bunul simt sa schimbe macar sigla si numele.

Actually, there are a lot of car models in China than these copycat. Currently there are about 50 independent auto makers in China. 14 of world top 40 auto makers are Chinese, but none of Chinese automakers are in world top 15. This is a big problem of Chinese auto industry. It consists of too many small companies.

This link gives status of world auto industry in 2007, including information about Dacia as a subsidiary of Renault.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_industry

[ablium]

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74998

Barack Obama noticed the Chinese achievement in infrastructure, but was attacked based on ideology value and sour taste of grape.

What Barack Obama said was partially true. I would like to give correct data and point out some mistakes of Obama here.

Port: Nine of world twenty busiest ports are in China and only three are in USA. So Obama is correct that Chinese port infrastructure is superior than American.

Airport: China has recently built a few world class airport and seems also better than the best airports in USA. But overall, American air transportation system is still vastly surperior than the Chinese. So Obama is incorrect about air transportation system.

Train system: China relies heavily on train transportation while American relies on air transportation and car driving on expressway transportation. US still has much longer railway length than China, but it is not heavily used. China has recently built several high speed rails but America basically has none. Obama is only partially correct here.

Expressway: The total expressway length of China is only about 60% of that of USA. US also has many more cars than China. Obama did not mention expressway in the article. That is my extra comment.

[Erethorn]

Si care e procentajul populatiei chineze care isi permite sa foloseasca acele aeroporturi ultramoderne, raportat la procentajul populatiei americane care isi permite sa le foloseasca pe cele din USA ?

Aceeasi intrebare relativ la "super high speed rails" din China...

[valh]

Originally Posted by Erethorn

Si care e procentajul populatiei chineze care isi permite sa foloseasca acele aeroporturi ultramoderne, raportat la procentajul populatiei americane care isi permite sa le foloseasca pe cele din USA ?

Aceeasi intrebare relativ la "super high speed rails" din China...

Stai linistit,se va veni cu argumentatie "solida" gen:citat Google unde ni se spune ca biletul de avion costa 10 dolari!Toti vor da cu sepcile in sus de bucurie,in naivitate pro chinezeasca,subita si elucubranta,nici unul negandind cum e posibil un asemenea pret! Cum ? Simplu, prin eficienta chinezeasca,adica ,salariul lucratorilor in bransa aero....100 euro,costurile suplimentare pentru a intretine populismul chinezesc ...avem prin salarii mizere, cheltuiala pentru cetateanul chinez ..ciuciu. De ce nu prezinta aceasta Ablium statistici legate de cheltuielile comunistilor chinezi pentru a isi asigura cetatenii? De ce? Simplu,nu are acces la ele.Pentru a fi profitabila si superputere o economie trebuie sa mearga ca unsa, nu trebuie sa fie nevoie de subventii pentru alte sectoare trase de la altele,acele sectoare trebuie sa fie ele insele profitabile. Ori ,la 30 de dolari biletul de tren,fara sustinere oarba de la comunisti ,ar sucomba. Asa arata economia unei superputeri?

Si asta e un exemplu! Ca nu este pe placul lucizilor "analisti" politici prochinezi tricolori de pe aici,imi asum riscul

Si repet intrebarea evitata,pusa mai sus,considerata ca fiind "neargument",de ce vin chinezii la noi pe o bruma de bani,sa munceasca,de fapt au impanzit lumea,daca e super ok la ei si, vad ca se tot fac comparatii cu USA, cati americani muncesc in China,pe salariu chinezesc si cati chinezi muncesc in America pe salariu american?Comparatii simple care denota ceva!

Oricum,se cheltuiesc dolari pe adidasi chinezesti. Era mai bine invers,yuani cheltuiti pe Nike (veritabili!!)!

[ablium]

Originally Posted by Erethorn

Si care e procentajul populatiei chineze care isi permite sa foloseasca acele aeroporturi ultramoderne, raportat la procentajul populatiei americane care isi permite sa le foloseasca pe cele din USA ?

Aceeasi intrebare relativ la "super high speed rails" din China...

I don't have data to answer your question, but the following is the fact.

Air plane is not mass transportation tool in China currently. China plans to develop high speed railways system instead of airways system for most of domestic travels. High speed railways are more economic and energy efficient than airways. For travel distance of less than 1500 km, high speed railways are often more convenient than airways.

High speed railways is still a small part of the total railways in China, but the length of high speed railways in China is already longer than that in Europe. By year 2020, when national high speed rail networks currently under construction are built, China will have high speed rail longer than the rest of the world combined. This might sound bragging, but it is a fact. If you take a look the ranking of world seaports from year 2002 to year 2006, you probably will realize that what I said is probably true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%2..._cargo_tonnage

[AxA]

Aparent, China s-a facut remarcata in lumina actualei crize economice, si va fi invitata sa participe la discutii alaturi de Uniunea Europeana si tarile membre G8 in curand.

[Erethorn]

Dissident Hu wins human rights prize:

Dissident Hu wins human rights prize - CNN.com

[Daisy]

AxA, China s-a facut remarcata prin cazurile de melamina si bebelusii din spitale mai mult. de ce nu bine ablium sa ne explice asta?

[Jigodie]

Engineering: World's Tallest Bridge Goes Up in China with the Help of Some Rockets

[ablium]

^
^
In last 15 years, China has built about 45% world new bridges.

List of largest cable-stayed bridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of the largest arch bridges - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of longest suspension bridge spans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Erethorn]

Ablium, you are quick to respond to laudative stuff and to enforce your propaganda, and yet slow to respond to critics, such as melamine or China's disidents wining international prizes.

If you insist on showing your big construction numbers down our throats, and trying to equate that to civilization, may I remind you that Hitler too is known for constructing like no-one before him ?

[oldshooterman]

Deocamdata se poate spune ca sistemul bazat pe o economie mixta supusa unui control centralizat, pus la punct de chinezi, functioneaza si asigura o crestere economica de invidiat...In plus se asigura si o oarecare siguranta sociala populatiei care nu are nici probleme legate de alegerea "clasei conducatoare" (problema destul de penibila in alte parti ale lumii, cind alternativele sint limitate la diferite tipuri de hoti...).

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Originally Posted by oldshooterman

Deocamdata se poate spune ca sistemul bazat pe o economie mixta supusa unui control centralizat, pus la punct de chinezi, functioneaza si asigura o crestere economica de invidiat...

Să vedem cum se va comporta în perioada care urmează - deoarece acest sistem a funcţionat după părerea mea doar datorită faptului că era parte a unui sistem global care ... dă semne că se gripează din ce în ce mai rău.

De ex. am citit/auzit că odată cu reducerea/evaporarea cererii de prin SUA multe fabrici şi uzine din China au început să-şi închidă porţile - chiar şi preţurile net mai mici decât de prin alte părţi fiind prea mari pentru piaţa internă respectivele capacităţi de producţie erau aşadar orientate cvasi-exclusiv pentru export.

[ablium]

Originally Posted by Erethorn

Ablium, you are quick to respond to laudative stuff and to enforce your propaganda, and yet slow to respond to critics, such as melamine or China's disidents wining international prizes.

If you insist on showing your big construction numbers down our throats, and trying to equate that to civilization, may I remind you that Hitler too is known for constructing like no-one before him ?

Amid the current world financial crisis, I am quite stressful as a large portion of my personal asset has been wiped out. I don’t have much time to argue political issues here now, which brings me no personal benefit. Let me just write a brief response to your post.

Recent melamine scandal in China was result of the criminal act of a few greedy farmers. The farmers diluted the milk produced by them and illegally add some melamine to fool milk factory IQC (Incoming Quality Control) test. Milk powder factories test protein concentration of milk by testing nitrogen content in the milk since protein is made of amino acids which contain nitrogen. Melamine is a nitrogen-rich chemical compound and it can give false reading in protein concentration test. I once used melamine in my research work. Toxicity of melamine has been somewhat exaggerated in media report. In fact, LD50 (Lethal Dose at 50% death) of melamine is at 3g/kg, about the same level as common salt (sodium chloride). Polymer of melamine is widely used in food utensils. Only chronic intake of large amount of melamine can cause serious health problem. Just like in any other country, there are murder, robbery, and rape cases every day in China. There are always some greedy people seeking profit by committing crime against others.

I don’t know much about dissident Hu. Therefore, I can not make any comment.

Infrastructure construction does not equate to all aspects of civilization, but it is a part of civilization. Crappy infrastructure is surely not manifestation of civilization. Hitler was guilty of aggression against other European countries and genocide against ethnic Jews. However, it does not mean that everything that Hitler did was wrong. I think that Hitler was right to put people to work by constructing the world first expressway (Autobahn) and other infrastructures during the Great Depression. After World War II, other countries followed the German footstep to construct expressway. For example, Americans started building massive interstate freeway system in 1950s.