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Thread: Iti plac organismele modificate genetic? Do you GMO?

  1. #241
    Registered User marianbv's Avatar
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    nu stiu daca s-a mai scris, problema mea e urmatoarea :
    mi se rupe de monsanto. imi cultiv porumbul / soia din mosi stramosi.

    vecinul meu foloseste gmo.
    eu ma trezesc cu productie/seminte modificate fara sa stiu. ca pe albine si pe vant ii doare in fund de ce fac.
    in plus cretinii dau in judecata si au o gramada de procese pe rol cu oameni care au urme din semintele lor pe plantatie, chiar daca ele ajung in mod natural acolo, fara sa stie fermierul de ele.
    pentru d3, btag : Marinica#2593

  2. #242
    Paranoia is natural AStateOfMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Khan View Post
    cand am spus "urmasi", m-am referit la modul general la toata lumea care consuma alimentele cancerigene
    Exemplul era personal ca sa intelegi tu mai bine fenomenul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Khan View Post
    Daca nu le place mancare cancerigena, sa puna osul la treaba si sa se apuce de agricultura bio daca au forta, minte si bani.....exact dupa cum spunea si Giurgea
    Right, ne apucam toti sa ne facem gradini, dupa ce venim de la serviciu mai dam putin cu sapa la rosii, porumb si ce mai e. Si seminte de unde luam cu totii?


    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Khan View Post
    Ganditi-va ca stramosii nostri mancau fructele si legumele culese din gradina nespalate, cu viermi, microbi si cu noroi cu tot si carnea pregatita in cel mai neigienic mod posibil si totusi, aveau sistemul imunitar mai rezistent, apucand sa traiasca 50-60 de ani.Si nu existau vaccinuri si nici pesticide si nici chimicale.
    Probabil de asta stramosii nostrii erau cateva sute de milioane ca populatie pe tot globul iar acum suntem 7 miliarde?
    [웃어라. 온 세상이 너와 함께 웃을 것이다. 울어라. 너 혼자만 울게 될 것이다

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by AStateOfMind View Post


    Probabil de asta stramosii nostrii erau cateva sute de milioane ca populatie pe tot globul iar acum suntem 7 miliarde?
    pai vezi?

  4. #244
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  5. #245
    Paranoia is natural AStateOfMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Khan View Post
    pai vezi?
    Ce sa vad? Nu e meritul Monsanto ca suntem atat de multi, ne-am inmultit in draci in lipsa lor. Si stii ce e mai funy ... ca in vest, acolo unde se vand produsele lor, sporul natural este negativ. Dar, din nou, nu din cauza lor.

    Europa nu foloseste produse Monsanto, ti se pare tie ca se moare de foame pe capete? Sau ca mancarea e cu mult mai scumpa decat in US?
    Last edited by AStateOfMind; 31-05-2013 at 18:17.
    [웃어라. 온 세상이 너와 함께 웃을 것이다. 울어라. 너 혼자만 울게 될 것이다

  6. #246
    Catârul The Mule's Avatar
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    Da, in Europa, mancarea este mult mai scumpa decat in US. Asa, la o estimare limitata la experientele personale, as zice ca in medie costa dublu...
    “Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford.”

    ― Samuel Johnson

  7. #247
    Paranoia is natural AStateOfMind's Avatar
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    De cate ori ai fost in state si unde ai mancat? De cate ori te-ai plimbat prin europa si unde ai mancat?

    Daca faci comparatii londra vs vreun satuc din US nu e chiar relevant.

    Iti pot arata localuri nu f pretentioase in state unde un steak e de la 40$ in sus. Si localuri unde poti manca un pranz cu 10$. Dar si in europa iti pot arata localuri unde poti manca un pranz cu 10e, in mijlocul parisului. Junk food au cam acelasi pret si acolo si aici. Cam la fel si mancarea din supermarket.

    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...=United+States vs
    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...country=France vs
    http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...United+Kingdom
    Last edited by AStateOfMind; 31-05-2013 at 18:56.
    [웃어라. 온 세상이 너와 함께 웃을 것이다. 울어라. 너 혼자만 울게 될 것이다

  8. #248
    Catârul The Mule's Avatar
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    NY, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Virginia/Connecticut in US si in europa UK, Romania, Franta, Belgia, Germania, Luxemburg, Italia, Spania, Grecia, Ungaria, Austria si naiba mai stie pe unde. In tot felul de localuri, si in bodegi ieftine si in rachete cu pretentii, nu compar mere cu pere... Raportat la cantitatea de mancare, comparand lucruri similare, este mult mai ieftin in US.

    Tu esti ala care compara un steak cu un pranz de $10... Nicaieri (US sau Europa) nu e o friptura de vaca mult mai ieftina decat $40... As zice ca in functie de tipul de carne friptura de vaca (steak) variaza intre $25-$100...
    “Sir, when a man is tired of London, he is tired of life; for there is in London all that life can afford.”

    ― Samuel Johnson

  9. #249
    Paranoia is natural AStateOfMind's Avatar
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    WTF? Esti pe bune? Unde am comparat un steak cu un pranz de 10$? Tu atat ai inteles? Am spus ca exista ambele variante si au preturi similare si in US si in EU. Nu am zis ca e mai ieftina de 40$ in eu sau state, cu atat mai putin "mult mai ieftina". De cand ai plecat in londra ai probleme in a intelege limba romana?

    Mai bine vezi pe acele link-uri, sunt mai edificatoare si nu tin de "experiente personale" care sunt total diferite, mie unul mi se pare ca mancarea are cam acelasi pret, cu minime variatii. In nici un caz nu intra in discutie "mult mai".

    Cel mai simplu: compara chestiile comune (mc donalds, kfc, starbucks). Laptele, berea, etc in supermarkets.

    banzay, corect, dar strict referitor la preturi nu as putea spune ca un 20-25% in plus inseamna "mult mai mult". Mai mult, da, mult mai mult nu.
    Last edited by AStateOfMind; 31-05-2013 at 19:47.
    [웃어라. 온 세상이 너와 함께 웃을 것이다. 울어라. 너 혼자만 울게 될 것이다

  10. #250
    Registered User Banzay's Avatar
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    Au preturi similare, problema e puterea de cumparare.
    Ca sa nu mai zic ca la multe produse se pastreaza paritatea 1-1 desi euro=/=dolar.

    Un mic fragment legat de GMO.

    As another lefty and sciency person, I've had this frustrating conversation with probably half my friends by now. I think the fear of it stems primarily from a lack of understanding of what GMO actually is/does, so it's become a conversation around basic intro-level education more than anything else. It reminds me a lot of having to explain the concept of evolution to someone who fought against it but didn't understand what it actually claimed. At this point it goes basically like this:

    GMO is a form of technology which allows scientists to take small segments of genetic code from one organism and insert them into the genetic code of another organism. These segments of code are responsible for producing certain characteristics in the original organism which it evolved naturally over millions or billions of year. This is a technology which could be used to create organisms that would then be used for good purposes, bad purposes, neutral purposes, etc. In this way it's no different than any other technology, in that it can be harnessed for the purposes of the user.

    We have in fact been modifying plants and animals to suit our needs since the dawn of agrarian civilization, by selecting for agriculture which randomly mutates in a direction we find beneficial (bigger produce, more pest resistance, etc). The difference is that in the past we had to rely on the random nature of mutation and then pick the best, while with GMO we can intentionally grab genetic code which has already evolved in other ecological niches and use it wherever it makes sense.

    So, what can we do with GMO?

    • Create healthier agricultural products. Inserting genes that code for the retention/production of nutrients like Vitamin A, β-Carotene, Iron, Iodine, etc would allow us to turn staple calorie-rich foods into healthier "superfoods".
    • Create more robust agricultural products. This could take the form of natural pest resistance (to drastically reduce the use of pesticides, which have harmful side effects), resilience in the face of droughts and temperature extremes (reducing waste), and longer lasting produce (reducing spoilage).
    • Boost yields in every dimension. More produce per land used, more produce per fertilizer used, more produce per water used, more food per CO2 expended by farming equipment, etc. To be clear, this is a green initiative. More food with lower footprint.



    So, why do people fight against it?

    • Mansanto. This company gets a terrible name due to their business practices (creating expensive dependencies, suing farmers, aggressive IP litigation, etc). Unfortunately this negativity has bled over to GMO as a general technology, because they are such a huge name in the industry today. Think of it like cable companies... everyone hates their cable company, but it's not because we hate cable or internet, it's because we hate the poor customer service and obnoxious business practices of our company specifically. Today Monsanto is the big name in GMO, and they suck. But that doesn't mean GMO sucks.
    • Fear of unforeseen consequences. One common claim is that crop blights would do more damage resulting from lack of genetic diversity (the claim is often made that GMO crops will all be the same so they might all get killed off at once if the right disease hits). This one is particularly misguided in my mind because GMO is creating genetic diversity faster than we've ever had it before, and because it gives us tools to target and fight blights we've never had before. If we have to rely on the arduous and random process of natural mutation to increase genetic variance in our products, we are approaching the danger of crop blights with one hand tied behind our back.
    • Argument in favor of customer choice. The "natural living" idea is big and growing in western culture, and along with it things like all-organic, vegan, paleo, etc diets. One of the arguments against GMO from this side is that it will reduce their ability to chose a "natural" lifestyle as GMO products proliferate and become commonplace.
    • GMO as a technology could be intentionally used for nefarious purposes (engineering of more effective biological weapons, for example). This is completely separate from agriculture, though you will find some people that argue against researching GMO technology at all out of fear. This is not a viewpoint I hold.



    The bottom line? GMO as a technology is not intrinsically good or bad. It has the potential to do very many good things and to avoid every one of the bad things depending on how it is implemented. It also has the potential to do just the opposite.

    So, why do I support the concept of GMO? Besides all of the potential benefits of developing GMO agriculture I already listed, ultimately we live in a global society, which means we certainly aren't going to stop companies and governments around the world from developing and harnessing this technology whether we like it or not. So what do we do to prevent the Monsantos of the world from screwing us over? Throw ourselves into it head first and foster an environment of competition, innovation, and oversight/regulation. Embrace and invest in developing this technology for good, so that we can be healthier, feed more people around the world (not just empty calories, but nutrients as well), and do it all with lower impact to the environment.

  11. #251
    RAN
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    Fear of unforeseen consequences
    Asta rezuma totul. Si ideea ca cumva produsele GMO nu ar fi la fel de hranitoare ca celelalte, desi in esenta tot aia contin.

  12. #252
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    Nu contin acelasi lucru. De ex. cerealele GMO contin pesticide foarte toxice atasate la nivel molecular pe care le inghiti, pe cind cele naturale sunt doar stropite cu pesticide care se spala inainte de consum. Culturile GMO altereaza complet biosistemul din zona in care sunt cultivate, cele naturale se integreaza in biosistem.

  13. #253
    RAN
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    cele naturale se integreaza in biosistem.
    E plina istoria de organisme naturale 100% care au distrus ecosisteme. Primul care-mi vine in minte e acela cu crapii chinezesti care au distrus ecosistemul in multe zone din USA, initial fiind adusi (ce ironic) pentru controlul verde si natural al plantelor acvatice.

    cerealele GMO contin pesticide foarte toxice atasate la nivel molecular
    Serios? La nivel molecular?

    Nu contin acelasi lucru.
    Ba da. Porumbul e tot porumb, marul e tot mar, portocala e tot portocala.

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAN View Post


    Serios? La nivel molecular?

    Ultimul post a lui oldy e din acelasi liga cu plangerea adresata de bursucul Adrian Severin catre Primaria Capitalei in care semnala faptul ca apa din Bucuresti avea mai mult hidrogen decat oxigen.

  15. #255
    Paranoia is natural AStateOfMind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banzay View Post
    The bottom line? GMO as a technology is not intrinsically good or bad. It has the potential to do very many good things and to avoid every one of the bad things depending on how it is implemented. It also has the potential to do just the opposite.
    Asta rezuma perfect situatia
    [웃어라. 온 세상이 너와 함께 웃을 것이다. 울어라. 너 혼자만 울게 될 것이다

  16. #256
    RAN
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    Quote Originally Posted by delaparis View Post
    Ultimul post a lui oldy e din acelasi liga cu plangerea adresata de bursucul Adrian Severin catre Primaria Capitalei in care semnala faptul ca apa din Bucuresti avea mai mult hidrogen decat oxigen.
    Banuiesc ca n-a auzit ca daca legi doua molecule iti iese ceva care e complet diferit de primele substante. Ca exemplu trivial, hidrogenul, carbonul si azotul sunt formate din molecule care independent nu sunt toxice. Dar daca le atasezi la nivel molecular obti Hydrogen cyanide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAN View Post
    Banuiesc ca n-a auzit ca daca legi doua molecule iti iese ceva care e complet diferit de primele substante.
    Se poate spune ca tu n-ai auzit din moment ce sustii ca un produs GMO e la fel cu unul natural. Sunt diferite prin definitie, ca de aia se si numesc GMO. Iar ce am spus mai sus e cit se poate de corect.

    "Some of the (GMO) seeds have these pesticides encoded into their DNA, meaning the foods they produce will also contain the chemicals."

    "GM-linked pesticides (present in all these crops) actually end up inside the body of the consumer." GM pesticides inside you

  18. #258
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    It has already begun: Japan has just cancelled a large contract to purchase U.S. wheat. “We will refrain from buying western white and feed wheat effective today,” Toru Hisadome, a Japanese farm ministry official in charge of wheat trading, told Reuters.
    As many readers well know, I predicted precisely this scenario just yesterday in a Natural News article warning about the consequences of genetic pollution. There, I wrote, “All wheat produced in the United States will now be heavily scrutinized — and possibly even rejected — by other nations that traditionally import U.S. wheat. This obviously has enormous economic implications for U.S. farmers and agriculture.”
    Now we’re already seeing the result: the ditching of U.S. wheat by world nations that want nothing to do with GMOs.

    WRAPUP 1-US genetically modified wheat stokes fears, Japan cancels tender | Reuters

    The European Commission said Thursday it has asked EU member states to check imports of wheat from the United States which may be tainted with a genetically modified strain made by US agrochemicals giant Monsanto.
    The Commission, the European Union’s executive arm, said it had informed the 27 member states of the problem, “recommending (they) test the consignment of soft white wheat” in question.
    “In case of a positive confirmed result, the consignment shall not be placed on the market,” it said in a statement.
    Read full article

  19. #259
    Nick anterior: L1ON
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    toti o sa-l rejecteze, deci o sa ajunga la pret triplu pe la noi

  20. #260
    RAN
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldshooterman View Post
    Se poate spune ca tu n-ai auzit din moment ce sustii ca un produs GMO e la fel cu unul natural. Sunt diferite prin definitie, ca de aia se si numesc GMO. Iar ce am spus mai sus e cit se poate de corect.

    "Some of the (GMO) seeds have these pesticides encoded into their DNA, meaning the foods they produce will also contain the chemicals."

    "GM-linked pesticides (present in all these crops) actually end up inside the body of the consumer." GM pesticides inside you
    Absolut, la o exprimare semidocta ca "atasare la nivel molecular" merge un site conspirationist pseudostiintific cu afirmatii fara argumente. Ma ia durerea de cap cand ma gandesc ca tocmai voi sunteti aia care aveti impresia ca sunteti informati si cu mintea deschisa

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